JACK TEST (Bernstein video on CTDA)

Bernstein, Simon 2011 transcript TESTING

KC: This one has my signature on it that I'm going to the transcript and

everything for you.SB: Oh I don't need to know what...JD: We'll just leave a

copy here. SB: Whatever you are going to ask me... You want to ask me about

Trinity in 1930 [laughs]

JD: Put that in the back there. And you are all set to go Katie. KC: Alright.

SB: My tuition my first year at Trinity was 250 dollars and I had to scramble to

find the money for it. KC: I'm jealous. 53,000 dollars a year. Alright, so we'd

first like to start with your time with the restrictive covenants in the 1940s.

We saw your name as someone who spoke out against restrictive covenants in the

1947 issue of the Hartford Courant.

SB: You sent me a copy, so I saw that. I have it, thank you. KC: What can you

tell us about this period?SB: Well, in the first place, I was... I'm a lawyer

and I had a case in which there was a restrictive covenant and I brought it to

court to get... to get rid of the restrictive covenant. I don't know if you are

interested in the case, or you can eliminate what you don't need. This black

lady was the maid of the owner of an immense part of Avon Mountain, of the

[West] Hartford side, which, in the '40s, was still undeveloped and when she

died she left her maid one percent. Now in the '40s, there was no development as

yet, when she agreed to do that. On her death, the attorney for her estate or

whatever you call it wanted to clear the title because apparently they had a

customer to buy the estate to develop, so it came to this lady's attention that

she was entitled to one percent of this old Yankee estate there and I looked it

over, she came to me, and I saw this restriction and I immediately brought some

sort of action. I don't remember just what it was at this time. But anyway, we

got it in court and it came before Judge, I think its William Shea [spelling??].

There are a number of Sheas on the Supreme Court, but this was, I think, in the

Court of Common Pleas in those days. We don't have that court anymore, it has

all been absorbed into one system. Every judge today is a superior court judge.

And in the course of it he called us in chambers and asked if we could settle it

nice and I said "I'm primarily interested in removing any kind of restriction."

So he said "Well, let me think about it and then come back next week," or

whatever. And when we came back he had apparently talked to the attorney for

this old Yankee family and he said "Would you be satisfied if he eliminated that

paragraph that's in there and forget about her interest," you know, her

financial interest. Well, I said "I'm primarily in this case to eliminate the

restriction, so I think my client would accept that." I'm not sure now whether

that was true, I think she wanted the money. But anyway, I accepted the deal so

the attorney for the old family erased that section, and I released ourobjection, and that's all there was to the case, but I thought a lot about it at

that time. I don't know if I still on the Town Council in Hartford. I was

elected... We had a Board of Aldermen to run the city in those days, and the

mayor. And I was elected the previous year to the Board of Aldermen, so I

brought this up in the Board of Aldermen, but in those we had no connection with

the state. We had our local problems, as you can imagine. And so I issued that

statement. "I'm going to ask the judiciary committee to propose a bill. And

frankly, that's all I really remember about it. Now you say it was 1947? In

1947, politically the Democratic party was in a state of uproar and I was

involved in the local politics so I was deeply involved. I didn't mean to be,

but it turned out that I was. If I go into that, you'll be here until tomorrow.

[laughs] But at any rate, that's all I know. I don't know what happened, whether

the legislature did anything, but all I know, as far as I know, there were no

cases ever in the superior court after that. It got a little display in the

paper and I think that end all of these restrictions in Connecticut. I may be

putting a little too much emphasis on it but... Now, I've got to ask...

interrupt to ask you a question. Do you know what Connecticut did about thisbesides the one case of mine? Did the... Wasn't there a case in the Supreme

Court of the state in which they ruled that all of those covenants were illegal?

JD: Well, that's the U.S. Supreme Court.SB: The U.S. Supreme Court. I think that

what I...JD: Yes. In '48. SB: Yeah, so Connecticut dilly-dallied with it, or did

nothing and [unclear name??] forgot I even said that. It was one day's notice in

the newspaper. But yes, the U.S. Supreme Court said that all over the country it

was illegal. So as far as I know, I had the only case that went to court. If

there were other cases, there had to be a lot of covenants all over the place.

As far as I know, that stopped any new ones. So I'm sure that lawyers read the

Courant in those days. Today I'm not so sure anybody reads the Courant. [laughs]

JD: Why don't you show him what we found and see if it rings any bells? KC: Oh,

sure. Well, first, what kinds of restrictions were these? Were they...SB: Well,

as you said in one of those articles, it was restricted to a... to all non...

you have it there. KC: Well, we have an example of one we found in West

Hartford. SB: The one that was in the newspaper. I think you mentioned it.

KC: Oh, the article. SB: One of them mentions it. It says what the restriction

was.JD: Mr. Bernstein... KC: "Mr. Bernstein said he recently was interested in a

case in which a deed limited sale of a property to 'non-Semitic persons of the

Caucasian Race'." Is that what you are talking about?SB: That's it. Yeah. It was

a general restriction, it didn't mention specific races or color, but obviously

that's what it was. Judge Shea was an interesting judge. And I presume, looking

back, that he was Catholic. I don't know where he personally stood on this, but

I was a young lawyer and I was scared to death of him. [laughs] I went along

with... When I say he's interesting, he tried the criminal case as a result of

the Hartford Circus fire. Are you familiar with that? And he really let the

president of the ownership of the circus, he let them have it. He blamed the

circus. Nobody knew what caused it, but he sent him to prison and then about a

year or so later, they got some information about this hobo who set it up, the

fire. And Shea went personally, went to the state's prison where the head of the

circus, Barnum and Bailey circus, and apologized profusely. But he based it on

what he knew. At that time, everybody was mad at the circus. I thought it was an

unusual point. It has nothing to do with this.

STOP TESTING HERE